One of my frequent commenters named “Ken” left a very interesting comment in one of my blog posts where he stated:
Ever noticed that when Christianity goes sour it starts to resemble Islam?
I thought about this and my answer is a definite “YES”. It appears to be that when when Christianity goes sour, gets more bizarre, and gets more militant that the view that people see of Christianity starts to resemble more and more like Islam.
In part two of my article Imitators or Intimidated, I mentioned these statements after I had talked about some intimidation tactics propogated in many churches today:
I find it interesting that this type of thinking also exists with the fleshly manifestation of Islam when the Islamic religious leaders declare ‘jihad’ on their enemies. If you notice when Islam has ever declared ‘jihad’ (holy war), the enemy was called per the official decree the ‘Great Satan’. The US in the 1970’s was deemed as ‘great Satan’ when we granted the Shah of Iran exile and the Allytollah Kohmeni took control. When Salmon Rushde wrote his book exposing Islam, he was deemed as ‘great Satan’ and fled for his life. The Osama Bin Laden tapes where jihad was declared on the US and enacted via the 9-11-01 tragedy referred to us as ‘great Satan”. I find this interesting as two diverse and opposite religions of Christianity and Islam both manifest the same character traits where people who disagree with the pastor / Islamic leader is viewed as ‘threatening’ and a ‘Satan”. Where Christianity is the life in the Holy Spirit via the work of Jesus on Calvary, Islam is the fleshly manifestation based on a fleshly act done thousands of years ago by a man of God who did not wait for God’s miracle for his wife but instead tried to create the miracle in the flesh. Islam traces it’s roots back to Adam and Eve but proudly traces it’s ancestry back to Hagar and Ishmael.
If you ever read the story of Hagar and Ishmael in Genesis 21
, you will discover that Abraham was promised a child back in Genesis 18
But the main war here is between the things of the Spirit and the things of the flesh. In fact, look at the marriages of Isaac and Ishmael. Genesis 21:21
Why have I brought the story of Isaac which represents the things and promises of God and the story of Ishmael which represents the actions of the flesh? Very simple. I wanted to show you the difference between flesh and Spirit. I will now show you the difference between flesh and spirit in relation to these scare tactics that the preachers use to intimidate people into their personal opinions about God instead of teaching us to be imitators of God. We see Jesus tell the disciples in Luke 6:28
Great point. One thing that I have also noticed that both Islam and religious right / pragmatic Christianity is that they love to conquer, rape, and pillage but when it’s time for martyrdom, there is an innocent virgin waiting for them as their divine reward.
It’s the same old “grace for me, judgment for you” mentality which is all in the body of Christ.
Then there’s these attributes of Islam that I’ve encountered in some Churches that produce similar results:
1) Hyperliteralist reading of the Holy Books (Bible or Koran); there’s this term I’ve heard called “Verbal Plenary Inspiration” which (as far as I can understand it) claims that the Bible was dictated word-for-word by God and written down word-for-word, in a form of “inspiration” that sounds like automatic writing or channeling.
I think the Islamic idea of inspiration is similar, that Mohammed recited Allah word-for-word to create the Koran (”Recitation”).
2) Extreme Predestination, based on an extreme view of the Soverignity of God. Side effects include fatalism (”Why Bother? It’s All God’s Will”), passivity (ditto), non-causality (”God Willed my fist to come forward, then God Willed your nose to bleed and hurt; no connection whatsoever”), and lack of personal responsibility (”Not My Fault! God Willed It!”).
And the additional side effect of “Worm Theology”, where “in order for God to be of Supreme Importance, nothing — and nobody — can be of any importance whatsoever.” (The image of God this brings to mind is Lord Farquar from Shrek decreeing that everyone in his realm have their legs amputated so nobody can ever be taller than himself.)
3) Optimization for a single culture, including all the mores and taboos of that culture. The classic example are the New England Puritan missionaries to Hawaii (as fictionalized in James Michener’s Hawaii), trying to force the Polynesian Hawaiians into Victorian New England architecture and dress, totally unsuited for Hawaii’s tropical environment. (This has become a running joke about Christian missionaries, from The Simpsons to South Park.)
However, Islam originated among Arab tribesmen and is completely optimized for Arab tribesmen. Including the Arab tribal values of Blood Feud, Blood Revenge, Raid and Pillage, and Male Supremacy. Especially in the Wahabi/Salafi/Takfiri/Al-Qaeda brand of “pure” Islam, becoming Muslim means becoming an Arab tribesman in your psyche and accepting all the Arab Tribal values — the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
4) Trying to go back to a “pure, uncorrupted” form of the faith, usually taking the time period of its founding as your example. In Christianity, this is called “founding a New Testament Church”. In Islam, this is called “Salafi”, i.e. “As It Was in the Days of the Prophet”. Never mind that present-day conditions may be different; instead of adapting to current reality in some externals while preserving the core of the faith, you preserve all the externals of the time of the founding with maximum rigidity.
Dear Sir,
The following issue can destroy ISLAM or ISRAEL; study it thoroughly to see if there is any truth to it.
READ THE FOLLOWING PASSAGES FROM THE BIBLE AS IT HAS IMPLICATIONS ON THE WAR AGAINST TERROR/ISLAM and the claim of Israel that god gave them the land. If the child is an infant than the Judeo-Christian version becomes null and void and we are wasting our time and resources i.e. we could save trillions of dollars and create a more peaceful world rather than fighting against Islam the religion of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them all).
The COVENANT with Abraham and his DESCENDANTS is central to JUDAISM/CHRISTIANITY/ISLAM.
Please note this is not a competition between faiths but an attempt to decipher fact from fiction.
Genesis 21:14
Contemporary English version se below link
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=GENESIS%2021;&version=46;
Early the next morning Abraham gave Hagar an animal skin full of water and some bread. Then he put the boy on her shoulder and sent them away.
GENESIS 16:16
And Hagar bore Abram a son; and Abram called the name of his son, whom Hagar bore, Ish’mael. Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore Ish’mael to Abram.
GENESIS 21:5
Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.
At Genesis 22
Abraham had only 2 sons others came later. The Quran mentions that it was Ishmael that was sacrificed hence the reference in genesis 22:2 your only son can only mean someone has substituted Ishmael names for Isaac!!
BY DOING SOME KINDERGARTEN ARITHMATIC USING ARABIC NUMBERS (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10)
NOT ROMAN NUMERALS (I, II, III,IV,V,VI,VII,VIII,IX,X) NB no concept of zero in roman numerals.
100 years old – 86 years old = 14 ADD 3 YEARS FOR ISSAC’S WEANING
THAT WOULD MAKE ISHMAEL 17 YEARS OLD IN GENESIS 21:14-21
BUT IT IS A DESCRIPTION OF AN INFANT.
Carefully read several times the above passage and then tell me the mental picture you get between the mother child interactions what is the age of the child. If the mental picture is that of a 17 year old child being carried on the shoulder of his mother, being physically placed in the bush, crying like a baby, mother having to give him water to drink, than the Islamic viewpoint is null and void. Why is there no verbal communications between mother and (17 YEAR OLD) child?
GENESIS: 21:14 - 21
So Abraham rose early in the morning, and took bread and a skin of water, and gave it to Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, along with the (17 YEAR OLD) child, and sent her away. And she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beer-Sheba. When the water in the skin was gone, she cast the (17 YEAR OLD) child under one of the bushes. Then she went, and sat down over against him a good way off, about the distance of a bowshot; for she said, “Let me not look upon the death of the (17 YEAR OLD) child.” And as she sat over against him, the (17 YEAR OLD) child lifted up his voice and wept. And God heard the voice of the (17 YEAR OLD) lad; and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven, and said to her, “What troubles you, Hagar? Fear not; for God has heard the voice of the (17 YEAR OLD) lad where he is. Arise, lift up the (17 YEAR OLD) lad, and hold him fast with your hand; for I will make him a great nation.” Then God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the skin with water, and gave the (17 YEAR OLD) lad a drink. And God was with the (17 YEAR OLD) lad, and he grew up; he lived in the wilderness, and became an expert with the bow. He lived in the wilderness of Paran; and his mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt.
The age of Ishmael at this stage is crucial to the Abrahamic faiths. If he is 17 than the JUDEO/CHRISTIAN point of view about the Abrahamic covenant is correct. This has devastating theological consequences of unimaginable proportions.
This makes the conflict between Ishmael and Isaac and there descendants a work of fiction. I would strongly suggest it is clear cut case of racial discrimination and nothing to do with god almighty. The scribes have deliberately tried to make Isaac the only son and legitimate heir to the throne of Abraham??
Please can you rationally explain this anomaly?
I have asked many persons including my nephews and nieces - unbiased minds with no religious backgrounds but with reasonable command of the English language about this passage and they all agree that the child in the passage is an infant.
AS THE DESCRIPTION OF ISHMAEL IN GENESIS 21:14-21 IS THAT OF AN INFANT IT CAN BE ASSUMED SOMEONE HAS MOVED THIS PASSAGE FROM AN EARLIER PART OF SCRIPTURE!!! AND HAVE GOT THERE KNICKERS IN A TWIST.
For background info on the future religion of mankind see the following websites:
http://www.islamicity.com/Mosque/Muhammad_Bible.HTM
(MUHAMMAD IN THE BIBLE)
http://bible.islamicweb.com/
http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-galloway_060806,00.html
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696
(ISRAELI HOLOCAUST AND WAR CRIMES)
http://ifamericansknew.com/
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/MB_BQS/default.htm
(BIBLE, QURAN and SCIENCE)
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/ ANTI-WAR
http://www.harunyahya.com/
(EVOLUTION DECEIPT)
http://www.barnabas.net/
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm
http://www.islamicity.com/
http://www.islamonline.net/english/index.shtml
http://www.islamalways.com/
HOLY QURAN CHAPTER 37 verses 101 - 122
101. So We gave him the good news of a boy ready to suffer and forbear.
102. Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: “O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!” (The son) said: “O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!”
103. So when they had both submitted their wills (to Allah., and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
104. We called out to him “O Abraham!
105. “Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!” - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
106. For this was obviously a trial-
107. And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
108. And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:
109. “Peace and salutation to Abraham!”
110. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
111. For he was one of our believing Servants.
112. And We gave him the good news of Isaac - a prophet,- one of the Righteous.
113. We blessed him and Isaac: but of their progeny are (some) that do right, and (some) that obviously do wrong, to their own souls.
114. Again (of old) We bestowed Our favour on Moses and Aaron,
115. And We delivered them and their people from (their) Great Calamity;
116. And We helped them, so they overcame (their troubles);
117. And We gave them the Book which helps to make things clear;
118. And We guided them to the Straight Way.
119. And We left (this blessing) for them among generations (to come) in later times:
120. “Peace and salutation to Moses and Aaron!”
121. Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
122. For they were two of our believing Servants.
ISHMAEL IS THE FIRST BORN AND GOOD NEWS OF ISSAC DOES NOT APPEAR UNTIL AFTER THE SACRIFICE?????
Therefore the claim that god gave the land to Israel is destroyed without the need of any WMD’s.
HADITH
Volume 4, Book 55, Number 583:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The first lady to use a girdle was the mother of Ishmael. She used a girdle so that she might hide her tracks from Sarah. Abraham brought her and her son Ishmael while she was suckling him, to a place near the Ka’ba under a tree on the spot of Zam-zam, at the highest place in the mosque. During those days there was nobody in Mecca, nor was there any water So he made them sit over there and placed near them a leather bag containing some dates, and a small water-skin containing some water, and set out homeward. Ishmael’s mother followed him saying, “O Abraham! Where are you going, leaving us in this valley where there is no person whose company we may enjoy, nor is there anything (to enjoy)?” She repeated that to him many times, but he did not look back at her Then she asked him, “Has Allah ordered you to do so?” He said, “Yes.” She said, “Then He will not neglect us,” and returned while Abraham proceeded onwards, and on reaching the Thaniya where they could not see him, he faced the Ka’ba, and raising both hands, invoked Allah saying the following prayers:
‘O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring dwell in a valley without cultivation, by Your Sacred House (Kaba at Mecca) in order, O our Lord, that they may offer prayer perfectly. So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allah) provide them with fruits, so that they may give thanks.’ (14.37) Ishmael’s mother went on suckling Ishmael and drinking from the water (she had).
When the water in the water-skin had all been used up, she became thirsty and her child also became thirsty. She started looking at him (i.e. Ishmael) tossing in agony; She left him, for she could not endure looking at him, and found that the mountain of Safa was the nearest mountain to her on that land. She stood on it and started looking at the valley keenly so that she might see somebody, but she could not see anybody. Then she descended from Safa and when she reached the valley, she tucked up her robe and ran in the valley like a person in distress and trouble, till she crossed the valley and reached the Marwa mountain where she stood and started looking, expecting to see somebody, but she could not see anybody. She repeated that (running between Safa and Marwa) seven times.”
The Prophet said, “This is the source of the tradition of the walking of people between them (i.e. Safa and Marwa). When she reached the Marwa (for the last time) she heard a voice and she asked herself to be quiet and listened attentively. She heard the voice again and said, ‘O, (whoever you may be)! You have made me hear your voice; have you got something to help me?” And behold! She saw an angel at the place of Zam-zam, digging the earth with his heel (or his wing), till water flowed from that place. She started to make something like a basin around it, using her hand in this way, and started filling her water-skin with water with her hands, and the water was flowing out after she had scooped some of it.”
The Prophet added, “May Allah bestow Mercy on Ishmael’s mother! Had she let the Zam-zam (flow without trying to control it) (or had she not scooped from that water) (to fill her water-skin), Zam-zam would have been a stream flowing on the surface of the earth.” The Prophet further added, “Then she drank (water) and suckled her child. The angel said to her, ‘Don’t be afraid of being neglected, for this is the House of Allah which will be built by this boy and his father, and Allah never neglects His people.’ The House (i.e. Kaba) at that time was on a high place resembling a hillock, and when torrents came, they flowed to its right and left. She lived in that way till some people from the tribe of Jurhum or a family from Jurhum passed by her and her child, as they (i.e. the Jurhum people) were coming through the way of Kada’. They landed in the lower part of Mecca where they saw a bird that had the habit of flying around water and not leaving it. They said, ‘This bird must be flying around water, though we know that there is no water in this valley.’ They sent one or two messengers who discovered the source of water, and returned to inform them of the water. So, they all came (towards the water).” The Prophet added, “Ishmael’s mother was sitting near the water. They asked her, ‘Do you allow us to stay with you?” She replied, ‘Yes, but you will have no right to possess the water.’ They agreed to that.” The Prophet further said, “Ishmael’s mother was pleased with the whole situation as she used to love to enjoy the company of the people. So, they settled there, and later on they sent for their families who came and settled with them so that some families became permanent residents there. The child (i.e. Ishmael) grew up and learnt Arabic from them and (his virtues) caused them to love and admire him as he grew up, and when he reached the age of puberty they made him marry a woman from amongst them.