According to Rick Hiebert via this article and part two posted at Bene Diction Blogs On, it is being reported that more than one person during a service at MorningStar last night publicly and loudly confronted Todd Bentley during the offering about Bentley’s adultery and his need for repentance. Bentley’s security apparently took action and escorted these people out of the building and the police was called to prevent any further disturbance from happening.

So that is how Todd Bentley (and many Charismatic fellowships) handle disagreeing people who disagree / “persecute” with them? Escort them out, call the police, and maybe contact the attorney to get a cease and desist order….

“Persecution” is apparently what Todd is labeling this as per his twitter account where he stated

Thanks for the Love. God is blessing his people. Tonite the presence was so sweet and God bless those who persecute us

about 20 hours ago from Twitterrific (9:42 PM 2/6/10 as I type this and therefore approximately 1 AM 2/6/10 when he tweeted this after the service)

I always found it ironic in these ‘ultra-anointed’ Charismatic churches where they talk about God protecting them and cursing their ‘enemies’ that they have a security team / armorbearers, etc. in the service. If God was really ‘protecting’ them, why would you need security and why would you need to call the police? Wouldn’t God ‘take care of them’ at that moment?

I do admire these people who did confront Bentley from the audience concerning his adultery and asking Todd to genuinely repent. In one way, I see it as being ‘out of order’ but in another way, I can see their ‘only opportunity’ because if these same people tried to access Bentley privately, they would have been either denied or roughed up and Bentley would have been shrouded by all of this ‘pentecostal prophetic posse’ called ’security’.

Gee, Nathan, Elijah, and Elisha never needed a pentecostal prophetic posse to protect them. Just think if Elijah had a pentecostal prophetic posse with him when God moved at the showdown on Mount Carmel, maybe he wouldn’t have ran when Jezebel threatened to kill him because he could have sent the posse to take care of Jezebel. Thank God Elijah had the true anointing of the Lord on him.

But what makes this interesting is this eyewitness account from a pro-Bentley supporter where these people who spoke were referred to as having a ‘demonic presence coming from them. It was like… it was on their voices.’ and that this person has come out in their last statement and made an identification of one of those people:

I’m pretty sure that one of hte guys was Bud Press. Sounded like his voice

(In case you do not know, Bud Press is the head of the Christian Research Service, a well respected apologetic web page that has spoken out against Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Revival.)

This is a very serious accusation to make and be ‘pretty sure’ about it based on someone’s voice. Either Mr Press was definitely there and possibly did become involved in what happened last night or (more than likely) Mr. Press definitely was not there. I do not know if Mr. Press was present or not and maybe we may see some sort of comment from Mr. Press on his web page addressing the issue. However, if Mr. Press was not there, the author owes Mr. Press a public apology and needs to retract that statement.

So what is going to happen next? More “security”? More ‘Discernment at the door’ (a practice done in many Charismatic churches where a ‘discernment team member’ acts like a bouncer and allows/denies entrance to the sanctuary as they please)? More “discernment team level 2″ people (who get the people not singled out by the level one door personnel) where anyone they deem as being suspicious in the audience will be told to leave because “God told us to ask you to leave” as they walk through the audience trying to ’sniff out the enemy’ during the services with their ‘demon detectors’? No more live services online to where if something really happened it can be edited?

It will be interesting to see

======= EDIT 11:48 PM 2/6/10 =======

A search on Twitter has prompted this tweet from Twitter user AMightyRoar that stated

Going to MorningStar Church tonight to confront Todd Bentley and his ministry with the gospel of Jesus… http://tumblr.com/xpu65yvi0

3:59 PM Feb 5th from Tumblr

I wonder if he did follow through on his tweet and was one of the people who did speak out.

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Handling Persecution Todd’s Way

In one corner, the defending champion from the Lakeland Revival / Florida Outpouring, Stacey “Shakeums” Campbell

(look at the clip starting from 2:40 until 6:00)

In the opposite corner, the challenger at Morningstar via the Morningstar Outpouring / IHOP-KC student awakening, Jessa “the Jerkette” Bentley

(look at the clip starting from 2:55 until 3:45)

(Credit goes out to Todd Bentley plays Can You Top This? from Bene Diction Blogs On)

After seeing the Jessa clip, the first thing it reminded me of was the now famous Stacey Campbell “prophecy” clip from the Lakeland Revival. I therefore went to Youtube and looked at both the Stacey and Jessa clips and I came to the conclusion that…

It is the same foul, rotten, demonic, and filthy spirit that was causing Stacey Campbell to gyrate at Lakeland that is causing Jessa Bentley to do the same thing at MorningStar

Between the “voice” coming out of both of their mouths, the similar pitch, similar tone, and similar frequency of the “voice”, and the redundant “hissing” and upright ’slithering’ that took place, It sounds like the same ‘voice” is speaking out through two different people that have allowed this foul, rotten, demonic, and filthy spirit to manifest inside of them. I don’t think the two women are ‘faking’ this.

This really looks like the Kundalini manifestations Andrew Strom mentioned in his last e-mail entitled “KUNDALINI WARNING – Urgent” from his mailing list. And they call these outpourings “of God”? I think not

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Shake Em Up

I guess that is what is being stated in the latest video to come across Charismania. Chrystal of the Slaughter of the Sheep Blog has documented here and also here the contents of a recent video where Bob Jones (not the Bob Jones of the independent fundamentalist Baptist fame) spoke to the congregation at Rick Joyner’s church and literally stated:

I want you to break curses. I want you to break a curse off of Todd Bentley. Because well-meaning christians have put a curse on him, and that’s leaving an opening for him to be assassinated. Also, that curse is on everyone that protects him. In other words, MorningStar has been bombarded by this same disgruntled-Christian curse, not knowing what they’re doing. Take the curse off that. This building’s been…a curse put on it…take that off.”

So according to this guy, anyone who speaks out in truth against the antics of Joyner, Bentley, and Jones and also spoken out in the name of apologetics and protecting the flock are guilty in the eyes of God of ‘placing curses’ on them?

That is what it sounds like…. And it also sounds like it could be taken to the lowest common denominator that it wasn’t Todd’s fault for his adultery, it was the fault of other Christians who spoke out and disagreeed…. Come on. Who are you kidding.

When Charismatic-crapola like speaking against them is cursing them is taught, all these people are doing is being “CC” (charismatically correct) and their mindset of making believers believe that speaking against them is cursing them is actually the “CC” term for simply telling their disagreers to “Shut up”.

Since they are always feeling like they are the only true ones getting all of these attacks and curses, I want to reverse the thought processes here and ask a question here…

When people like Bentley, Joyner, Jones, and others love to call those who disagree with them through the use of proper Christian Biblical doctrine “pharisees”, “full of religious spirits”, “religious devils”, “agent of Satan”, “spiritual Judas”, “Saducess”, “rebellious”, etc. and claim that this is in reality “Cursing them”; Are these same people actually doing the exact same thing (cursing) they accuse those they disagree with them of doing? (cursing)

If their logic is properly applied to both sides, then they too, are “cursing” and are guilty as such. Christians who are ‘cursed’ by people such as Bentley, Jones, and Joyner should not only rebuke those curse applied back but should follow the Biblical command found in Matthew 5:43-45 which states :

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Tag, you’re it…… I’ve tagged you, now you’re it. And that is exactly what is being done here. It becomes like the schoolyard fight that gets broken up and the person who throws the last punch that hits is declared the winner. Or the person who sees an argument in a Christian forum and is the last one to respond means their opinion is God’s official opinion on the matter.

But this really shows the ‘level of justice’ within the charismatic movement. Big name celebrities are always ‘attacked’ by name-calling, tragedy, disagreements, and personal moral failure but the ‘little guys’ and ‘enemies’ are always blamed for their own personal tragedies and personal moral failures as committing either ’secret sin’ or ‘touching God’s anointing’ (aka disagreeing), or “lacking faith”. In reality, the average charismatic seen as ’small’ in their eyes is treated by the ‘bigwigs’ in a similar manner as their ‘enemies’……

Look at their mindsets here… It seems they never get anything done because to them; there is always another curse to break, another “repent-a-thon” to have, another mega revival to have, and another 2 Chronicles 7:14 prayer rally to attend in order to ‘break’ these ‘negative forces’ and it seems to me that there are just ‘too many’ of these ‘negative forces’ to the point where it would be way too time consuming and their agendas and goals would never be accomplished in their own lifetimes. Therefore, these people have to get ‘charismatically creative’ in order to twist the Scriptures to make them line up with their own global agendas.

With all the so called ‘repentance’ and spiritual warfare that has taken place and is currently going on, would you think that by now they should have already succeeded in obtaining ‘their next level’?

It is very clear to me that by now, not repenting hard enough, not praying and fasting long enough, not confessing enough sin, and not giving enough money are not the main reasons as to why their fantasies of utopia have not come to pass and their attempts have outright failed. The main reason why is because God is so sovereign, provident, and all-powerful to the point where HE will not allow any person or organization to both profane His holy name and to take credit or claim that it was by their mights, theories, and force that their utopia has come into existence.

The only thing that needs to be broken are not the ‘imagined’ curses on Todd Bentley that is actually the truthful spoken words of the Scriptures, but the chains that allow the charismatics to bind people up into a state of Christianized co-dependency to where they are without function without their influences speaking to them.

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Curse Tag

It was revealed earlier this past week that over at Todd Bentley’s web page, a twenty minute video was posted where Bentley, Joyner, and for the first time, Todd’s new wife Jessa, speak and try to compare their “mess” to the David and Bathsheba story of the Bible.

First of all, comparing yourselves to David and Bathsheba is unmerited simply because Todd and Jessa Bentley are not David and Bathsheba. Todd and Jessa Bently are simply Todd and Jessa Bentley.

1 Corinthians 10:1-11

Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

Where in this piece of scripture can the concept of “Charismatic Replacement Theology” (exchanging your name for some Bible character) be applied? It can’t. The word admonition means “reproof or warning”. Therefore, it does not mean that you can substitute your name in place of some Bible character’s name and expect the same exact results. However, it does mean that you can read these Old Testament stories and learn from them in order to not repeat the same mistakes but to live a life that is pleasing to God.

Second of all, when these famous televangelists use the David story, they always concentrate on the ‘man after God’s own heart’ aspects and seem to totally ignore the facts of the family chaos that haunted David for the rest of his life. They seem to have a “selective spirituality” when it comes down to that aspect of David’s life because it doesn’t fit the pre-planned scrip of their mega destiny.

This ‘revival’ should have never happened. It has now become documented that key leaders knew Todd’s marriage was already in trouble prior to the Lakeland Revival starting up. Todd should have been sent home to reconcile the marriage. However, in ministries ran on the ‘pentecostal pragmatic’, there is this mindset preached from within that…

Mr. Joyner, Jessa was never intended to be the ‘perfect’ girl for Todd. Shonnah was.

If you keep doing “God’s will” (even to the point of maintaining your family and walk with God), this will all ‘work out’ in the end

Doesn’t work that way….

This ‘revival’ started out with a dark agenda of trying to make the ‘prophetic’ as displayed on web pages like the Elijah List as being “mainstream’ within Charismatic circles that is viewed as being ‘fringe’ by many “mainstream” denominations. When the ‘revival’ grew, then the Revival groupie leaders got involved with the ‘accountability service’ staring “Stacey Shake-mmms” (Stacey Campbell), and we were getting ready to see the ushering in of the New Apostolic Reformation and eventually; their concept of the Seven Mountain Mandate.

This was a man made revival from the start that was ended by God exposing out a deep seated sin.

In reality, nothing much as changed, Todd’s fall from grace is only viewed as a minor setback from implementing the NAR / Seven Mountain agenda and when the novelty of Todd wears off, someone else with a gorier testimony and a freakier show will be pushed to the limelight in order to push the agenda disguised as apostolic because the show must go on and the money must be made.

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Christian Celebrity Repentance, Episode 14

To those who are not, the picture is a frame shot of the classic movie “Blues Brothers” starring the late John Belushi and Dan Aykroyd as Jake and Elwood Blues.

The movie opens up with of Jake Blues (Belushi) walking out from prison a free man. The first thing Jake and reunited brother Elwood (Aykroyd)do is to visit the Catholic foster home where they were raised. They learn about the Catholic church stopping its support and its plans to close the orphanage to sell the building to pay off $5000 in back taxes on the property. Jake and Elwood, moved by the news, want to help save the orphanage but only have 11 days to save the orphanage from going under.

It is later on where they were recommended to visit the Triple Rock Baptist Church for some “spiritual guidance” and the brothers decide to pay a visit one Sunday morning. The pastor breaks out into his sermon which leads into the choir singing the ole-time spiritual “Old Landmark”. It is during the middle of this song that the sun shines through the clouds striking the church, radiating through the stained glass window, and gleams it’s ray of light on Jake and the idea on how to save the orphanage hits him….

THE BAND………

Jakes goes through some estatic experiences with dancing and goes back to the lobby where they are standing and finally convinces his brother Elwood that reuniting their old band for a concert gig to raise money is the way to go.

You are probably wondering right now….

What does this movie scene have to do with this article?

The answer is very simple. During my blog hiatus, I was sent an e-mail via the contact page of my blog about the leader of the worship that took place during the Lakeland Revival (Roy Fields) and was given a link to Field’s official web page and was told to look at the slideshow especially the first frame. I followed through and what did I see in the sideshow?

This ad for a “Worship Camp” with Roy Fields and the original “Lakeland Outpouring Worship Team” scheduled to take place in late September where in all places…..

Lakeland Florida.

Clicking on that frame in the sideshow took me to this page where more information about this Worship Camp was laid out. However, I did notice something very strange on this page. The exact location of the Worship Camp was not revealed on this particular page. In fact, the only way to find out where the exact location of the Worship Camp (on this page but revealed on Field’s Run With Fire ministries web page, the “Worship Camp 09″ link on royfieldsDOTcom, and deep on the Ignited Church web page) is to click on the “See 1 more picture” link under the graphic to the left which revealed the “obvious and logical” location in image 2 of 2.

Ignited Church, Lakeland, Florida

The church that was the birthplace to the disaster known as the Lakeland Revival.

After seeing all the pieces of the puzzle come together, I had this rhetorical thought come to my mind.

Is this really a “worship camp” or is this really the attempted incarnation of “Lakeland Outpouring 3.0″?

Why 3.0? Because if you remember after Todd left and the tent came down, Lakeland Outpouring 2.0 started from that hot August day back at Ignited Church until the revival officially ended in October, 2008.

Like Jake and Elwood Blues’ dream of recreating the old days of glory by reuniting the band for a one night show to raise money to save the orphanage, I really wonder if the true motive and dream of Roy Fields and Stephen Strader is to recreate the “glory days” of the Lakeland Outpouring (sans Bentley) by reuniting Fields, Strader, and the band to not only have just a couple days of “worship camp”, but to attempt to re-start the “revival’ all over again?

Like the members of Triple Rock Baptist Church that started running and dancing, I wonder if the hyper-emotion and the Lakeland Outpouring ‘buzz’ that could possibly be recreated create the same chaotic environment.

But there is a major difference here. The choir of the Triple Rock Baptist Church sung about going back to the Old Landmark where in one of the verses

Let us preach (preach the word) in the old (old time way)
Let us preach (preach the word) in the old (old time way)
Let us preach (preach the word) in the old (old time way)
Tell the (story) of His (glory),
it will (warn me) it will (turn me)
and will save this world from sin and shame

Wanting to exalt the Lord, outreach, and staying in the service of the Lord.

It seemed like all the Lakeland Outpouring ever wanted to do was to have real long worship times with “new songs” that had repeated phrases over and over again similar to a mantra, very little Word preached, very little outreach, and very little messages of repentance but instead talk about “healings”, “raising from the dead”, what you can get from God, “signs” and esoteric revelations. It seemed to be all about “new things” and networking the agenda of the N.A.R. to be a legitimate force to be reckoned with within Christianity

Ladies and gentlemen, I really believe that this is a valid and legitimate question to ask….

It’s been a year since the Lakeland Outpouring took place and even after this disaster of a “revival” collapsed, there appears to be a “market” and a “cash cow” for “revival” and someone is going to try to figure out a way to tap into that market and money. Many Christians are looking for something to make them more happy in the wake of their environments in order to take their minds off the election of Obama, the recession, and the ‘conspiracy theories’ heard everyday on religious-right radio thinking if they ‘revival’ hard enough, it will all just go away.

If you remember the end of the Blues Brothers movie, the band played, the money was raised, the tax bill was paid off, but because of all the illegal actions and shenanigans Jake and Elwood did, the two brothers are seen in the tax office with guns pointed at them by law enforcement where they were eventually arrested and sent to prison where they play “Jailhouse Rock” for their fellow inmates as the movie ends.

I really wonder after the actions and shenanigans that took place during the Lakeland Outpouring, if the ending to the Lakeland Outpouring story is really going to be like the ending of The Blues Brothers, an ole-time favorite revival song is going to be sung to the fellow revival participants

both the Blues Brothers/inmates and Fields & Strader/congregation wanting a break from the headlong race of life….

both the Blues Brothers/inmates and Fields & Strader/congregation wanting ‘freedom’ again to have another ‘revival’…

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The Band….

The are about to experience the cold-hard facts that there is a:

“High Cost For Low Living”

Emotional adultery, sexual adultery, allegations of sexual infidelity and the impending divorce, and the “photos”. All of this from “celebrity Christians” who many people looked up to (some to the point of idolatry) for “proof” that the religious-right’s “official Christian perspective” of theopolitics actually works or in Bentley’s case, the Lakeland Revival was legitimate.

I had thought about this term ever since these stories broke out and how true it really is to only be reinforced later on after reading Mark Galli’s article entitled The Scandal of the Public Evangelical (much of this article I do not necessary agree with) over at Christianitytoday.com.

I remember hearing this term almost twenty years ago from an friend of mine who later on in his own life, had to experience that very high cost for some low living he had done. It also reminded me of a very famous Allman Brothers song by the name “High Cost of Low Living”

Below are the lyrics

You’re the life of the party, everybody’s host
Still you need somewhere you can hide
All your good time friends
And your farewell to has-beens
Lord knows, just along for the ride

You think you’re a survivor
But boy, you better think twice
No one rides for nothin’
So, step up and pay the price

Chrous:
It’s the high cost of low livin’
Ain’t it high time, you turn yourself around?
Yeah, the high cost of low livin’
Is bound to put you six feet in the ground

So many here who love you
But still, you just can’t tell
The real ones and those who drop your name

All the while behind your back
They lift the flesh right from your bones
You should know by now, we’re all fair game

You’ve been chasing each dream with whiskey
From here to Tokyo
Usin’ up all your real friends
Places left to go

repeat chrous

Don’t look behind you
Ahh, don’t look back
Don’t try to find reason in the past
Past is gone, gone at last

repeat chrous

Every one of these people will have to pay that High Cost that they never imagined that they would (1): ever had to pay, and (2): if they figured out that there was a cost for low living, the cost is a whole lot more expensive that they ever dreamed. In fact, out of these two instances, you see three distinct personalities rise up

(1): The one who blames everybody else for his low living in the name of damage control.

(2): The one who was willing to pay a little bit but when realizes that this was costing them more than expected, started to fight over the actual cost in the name of cost cutting.

(3): The one who realizes that they are already doomed and accepts his fate in the attempt to go on with their life.

It’s easy to know what happens to the sinner who doesn’t repent. They act like nothing ever happened. What usually happens to the sinner who decides to go through a “season” of repentance:

(1): They either go for a “quickie” repentance to say “they did it” but are anxious to get back into the conference circuit because “the show must go on” (and the bank account is running dry)

(2): They go to repentance but go to their buddies of “yes men” to where they will be convinced that “the other party was the root cause” or “the spouse was no longer pretty enough”

(3): They go to repentance but choose a counseling group outside of the scope and authority of their district overseers because they fear that the counseling group of the overseers will remember all the numbers and money lost along with “secular-devil liberal news media scrutiny” and hold the “repenting sinner” back from ministry for a ridiculous amount of time in the name of “life grudge” or as a way to “hold him down” to where they can seize power and control. (personal opinion aside, I believe that is why Ted Haggard went to Arizona because the ones originally scheduled to walk him through his repentance probably would have “life grudged” him because of the liberal tide the nation took)

(4): They go to repentance, paid their price, come back “restored”, and are taking proactive steps to ensure that “low living / sin” never happens again.

It’s hard when the people we “leach” upon fall because we truly believe that somehow Christianity in America is going to die or get suppressed to further persecution with black helicopters looking for us. We get angry with righteous indignation because we can no longer perform “name-drop evangelism” using our christian celebrity we vicariously want to be. We then grumble because we are now forced to evangelize through us learning everyday to live right by carrying the cross and crucifying the flesh.

It’s easy to see now. We leeched on these people to “do the job” of evangelism that we were supposed to do. We went for the atomic bomb evangelism to reach the masses with one punch instead of being content over the fact that we were able to just reach one soul.

We are Christians, we are supposed to be different. We are to be “not of this world” even though we have to everyday “live in this world”. The fundamentalists / holiness people went too far to one extreme while the “greasy gracers” went to the other extreme. Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart’s fall should have scared the church more and more to live more right but we chose to instead blame a “devil news media” and dump these people as if we never knew them instead of acknowledging their sin and tried to restore them while fighting over who got Christian Disneyland in the end.

This created the two-sided coin of one side consisting of pastors who hide everything in fear of being caught and dumped over the side having to discover who the real friends were and who were the friends that leached on. The other side of the coin consists of the pastors who will choose to continue sinning because no one will force them to deal with the sin.

The shame is that in the limelight, the christian celebrity we idolize and see as our next Billy Graham or our next Ronald Reagan usually end up dumping the true and loyal friends for the name-droppers and leeches that brag and boast about being ‘their buddy’. They go all over the world proclaiming their power while in their own private world everything is falling apart.

Even though the Christian public lambastes these people when they fail to turn America into the utopia of men like Falwell, Rushdoony, Dobson, and others; the Christian public has also sinned equally by trying to create idols, heroes, and fighters, and lovers out of these people.

And what is Christian America’s solution to a leader who steps down because of moral turpitude?

Find another charismatic figurehead quick to be our new celebrity and continue the fight. Have a repent-a-thon and invent new sins to repent from. Extremely react back to a hyper legalistic state thinking we will find the middle balance when the chaos is over with but eventually fearing to take the step for the middle fearing that this is the re-stumbling back into an apostacy.

… and eventually the cycle repeats itself when the celebrity falls and we end up paying a higher price for lower living….

Some of these men never recover and go to their graves. Some of these men claim to be free just enough for the circus to continue while never recovering and eventually go to their graves. Very, very few of these men actually pay the cost and turn around to where tragedy becomes testimony.

After seeing all these celebrity Christians “fall”, are you more scared now about the state of your personal walk with Christ? Or are you more scared about your “competition”?

I am scared about the personal walk!

My weakness appear to be more stronger
My strengths appear to be more weakened

You know you are eternally secure but you know Romans 6 resonates within you….

God forbid!

As you feel like the secret trap door is about to open up with you on top about to fall down the chute?

We can pay a little now or a lot later and the lower we go and the longer we wait to confess, the higher the cost is. If you want to live low, be prepared to pay the cost. If you want to stress yourself above and beyond the human body to the point of weakness and easy submitting to temptation and sin, be prepared to pay the cost.

I don’t want to live low. I want to live righteous.

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The High Cost of Low Living

Episode 12 – “Behind The Scenes Footage – 4-16-09 – 9:19″

Episode 13 – “Buy Low, Sell High – 4-16-09 – 11:01″

I have watched all these videos and due to the “pressing family needs”, I decided to link to the reviews over at Miriam’s blog. She has said pretty much what I wanted to say.

Episode 12

Episode 13

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Christian Celebrity Repentance, Episodes 12-13

Even though Joyner mentioned his long marriage to his only wife and the fact that he has never touched anyone inappropriately (I say from the bottom of my heart that I am very happy for you Rick)

I felt like I was watching a rerun….

That’s all I have to say

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Christian Celebrity Repentance, Episode 11

This episode is really a continuation and reinforcement of episode 9

We see the same thoughts repeated again from “other Bible characters did worse and see how they came out” to Joyner’s incorrect translation of Galatians 6:1.

Todd talks about losing his connection with God and his carnality

One thing in particular that was discussed was how Peter denied the Lord but weeks later preached the famous Pentecost sermon leading into a statement of ‘limit the restoration, limit the cross’. The first thing I wondered when I heard this was

Are we being ‘primed’ for a extremely soon return of Bentley even though there was no ‘established timeline’?

It makes me wonder.

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Christian Celebrity Repentance, Episode 10

Basically, this is a ‘primer’ episode that is trying to reveal what is coming ahead in future episodes. One of the points that is being emphasized here is

There is too much stuff that can not be discussed due to time constraints of a ten minute video

Is this the ‘loophole’ that is going to be used to not talk about the main issues in public?

There is talk about Todd’s statement from the last episode where Todd stated that he didn’t have a doctrine on marriage and divorce and how through these videos, Todd would eventually have a doctrine on this subject matter. This flows into the subject of ‘does God hate divorce’ and ‘keeping our vows’.

One thing that was interesting about this video was the point where Joyner compared Todd to Jacob in reference to Jacob’s conniving nature. I saw some light finally being shined down for Joyner hit the bullseye on that analysis. What came next was a quazi-form of Charismatic replacement theology’ where the comparison of Todd to Bible characters who did far worse deeds and they turned out great so therefore, this meant that Todd is automatically going to turn out great.

Because this episode was dealing more with generalities, it will be interesting to see what takes place in the future episodes.

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Christian Celebrity Repentance, Episode 9

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All past, current, and future Christian Celebrity Repentance Episodes are / will be additionally indexed under their own category “CCR Episodes” available at this link or through the “CCR Episodes” link in the sidebar under the “Categories” section.

I had promised my buddy ‘Triple-P’ for a long time that I would better index and categorize them much better and to be more logically accessible. After seeing Miriam over at End Times Prophetic Words write a post with a synopsis of all her articles, I remembered my conversation with ‘Triple-P’ and went ahead and categorized my posts.

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Christian Celebrity Repentance Episodes

I left my comment and afterwards, started to think again about a certain potion of that comment

What many people tend to forget is that the movie was filmed way before the exposing of Ted Haggard. Ted Haggard was a dualistic personality within Christianity in many ways. He was widely respected by the Religious Right types for his ‘conservative ways’ and was seen by many within Christianity as being the ‘middle ground’ and more articulate and mannerly with appeal to the secular media than crass folks like Dobson, Wildmon, D. James Kennedy, Falwell, and Robertson. Secondly, because he lived in Colorado Springs, Haggard was deeply affiliated with the leaders of the New Apostolic Reformation (Wagner, Sheets, Jacobs, Pierce) and was seen in the same way that the religious right saw him because those leaders were also crass ad brash in the public eye.

Haggard was the bridge between these two separate agendas that on the outside appeared not to like each other (religious right was more mainline in Christian thought while the NAR was more pentecostal / charismatic in thought) but on the inside worked together in secret because without the other, neither group’s individual agendas would never come to existence. It would have taken the votes for the creation of the religious right utopia in America by the mainline Christians to eventually lead to the empowering of the New Apostolic Reformation as the official ‘global church authority’.

And why is Haggard now despised by both of these groups after his sins were exposed? Because he set their movements and agendas back another hundred years and/or permanently damaged their chances of ever obtaining their agendas. The religious right then looked to Sarah Palin (similar beliefs as Becky Fischer) and the NAR then looked to Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Revival where Bismarck, ND (Fischer’s birthplace) was ‘prophecied’ as one of the 100 Global Revival training and outpouring centers’.

History tells us how that worked out…..

and I began to realize more and more…..

The American Religious Right and the New Apostolic Reformation are Christianity’s version of classic television show “The Odd Couple”

The American Religious Right reminds me of the Felix Ungar character played by Tony Randall (and ‘played’ today by such people as Dobson, Wildmon, and Robertson but was ‘played’ in the past by Rushdoony, Falwell, and D. James Kennedy. The American Religious Right, like Felix Ungar is portrayed as the neat, clean, and orderly individual with an upper middle class white-collar job. And like Ungar, who was thrown out of his house by his wife, the American Religious Right strongly feels as if it was thrown out of it’s house of power by the ‘liberals’ and divorced from it’s place in American History.

The New Apostolic Reformation reminds me of the Oscar Madison character played by Jack Klugman (and played today by such people as C. Peter Wagner, Rick Joyner, Dutch Sheets, Cindy Jacobs, and Chuck Pierce). The New Apostolic Reformation, like Oscar Madison, is portrayed as the sloppy, disorderly, and casual individual with the lower middle class white collar job. And like Madison, who was thrown out of his house by his wife, the New Apostolic Reformation strongly feels as if it was thrown out of it’s house by the Vineyard Churches and divorced from it’s place in what they wish to be contemporary American Christianity. And like Oscar, who complained about paying alimony to the ex-wife, there seems to be a part of the New Apostolic Reformation that begrudges paying the alimony of history recognition back to the Vineyard church.

Where we see Felix Ungar try to win back, reconcile and eventually remarry his ex-wife, we see the American Religious Right try via politics, to ‘win back America’, forcibly reconcile (without ‘compromise’), and eventually remarry back into American culture it divorced years ago when they ran to the bunker trying to fight the culture war.

On the other hand, we see Oscar Madison verbally demean his wife and happy for his divorce feeling that he is better off. In the same manner, we have seen the New Apostolic Reformation come out against in sardonic means the Vineyard Churches and classical streams of the pentecostal and charismatic movement while at the same time, believe that they are thankful for their divorce feeling that they really are better off separated.

Throughout the entire run of television episodes, we see conflict arise between Madison and Ungar that threatens to end their friendship alliance, but the influences at their individual workplaces and their outside friends keep Madison and Ungar balanced. Even though both Madison and Ungar disdain publicly the other’s way of living, they realize that in order to survive the harsh reality of the big city, they really need each other for financial support to keep renting an apartment. Even though both the American Religious Right and the New Apostolic Reformation privately disdain the other’s way of life, they realize that in order to survive the bitter reality of the ‘once glorious’ nation, they need each other for votes / political support to keep the hope that one day, their separate end-result agendas will one day come to pass.

But there was one person that held the cohesive glue to making the friendship and alliance work. In the television show, it was Murray the Cop. In the Christian version, it was…..

Ted Haggard

for those reasons I mentioned in my original response to Spencer’s article about the Jesus Camp. Haggard was at that time, one of the very few people who had mutual respect and influence/affluence within both the American Religious Right and the New Apostolic Reformation. Haggard would have signs on the property of his church telling people who and what propositions to vote for/against. Haggard was very instrumental in helping out C Peter Wagner (who once attended Haggard’s church) in creating the World Prayer Center as well as the World Prayer Team.

And we saw what happened to Haggard… And we saw how The Odd Couple severed their ties with Haggard… And we saw how The Odd Couple tried their separate things (Religious Right with Sarah Palin as a vice-presidential candidate and NAR with Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Revival).

On the last episode of the television show, Felix eventually remarries his ex-wife and goes back to his house and moves in while Oscar goes back to living alone once again. In many ways, the American Religious Right is trying their best to eventually win the heart of the ex-wife they call America back in order to be able to remarry her and move back into the mainstream influence of American society and culture war. Really, the culture war was nothing more than the grand divorce of the Christian Religious Right from Americana. And as the apartment that Felix and Oscar shared was the haven from life, the bunker mentality called the church building and it’s imitation of culture was the haven from real life. Instead of trying to work things out (like they tell marriages in trouble to do), the American Religious right settled for refuge with the New Apostolic Reformation and their sloppy Christianity and enjoyed the ‘pentecostal poker games’ Oscar had with his buddies.

In the end, I want to leave with you the final scene from the final show

Felix: Your dinner’s in the oven; turn it off in twenty minutes. [pause] Oscar … what can I say? Five years ago you took me in: a broken man on the verge of … mental collapse. I leave here a cured human being. I owe it all to you. [gesturing toward apartment] It’s all yours buddy. I salute you. [empties waste basket onto floor]

Oscar: Felix, you know how I’m gonna salute you? I’m gonna clean that up.

Felix: It has not been in vain. [They shake hands and Felix exits stage right through front door. After door closes …]

Oscar: [swings his hand through the air] I’m not gonna clean that up! [exits stage left to bedroom to audience laughter]

[Felix sneaks back in stage right and looks at floor]

Felix: [disgustedly] I knew he wouldn’t clean it up! [proceeds to pick up trash to audience applause] (fade out)

And I believe that one day, if the remarriage of the Religious right to American society and culture does take place, we will see this same scene take place. Because both the American Religious Right and the New Apostolic Reformation did the exact same thing that Felix and Oscar did…

They created a mess.

The American Religious Right with a utopia dream of no more gays, outlaw abortion, high unemployment, S&L scandals, and the lunch buffet ‘pick and choose’ theologies of Sarah Palin left a mess called an ‘image’. The NAR, with their splits from the Vineyard, their esoteric eisegesis, and the mockery called Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Revival left a colossal mess called a ‘temporary setback’ (really, its called ’sin’). As Felix Ungar went to start his new life to re-identify himself in that last episode, he eventually cleaned up the mess before leaving. The American Religious right, with the deaths of many of it’s controversial leaders and the Sarah Palin fiasco, are trying to clean up it’s mess and re-identify itself with a ‘new image’ of the mainline, clean, and moral individual as caring and compassionate.

The NAR, on the other hand, contributed to this mess over time (Kansas City Prophets, spiritual mapping, revival/renewal, Toronto Blessing, identificational repentance, and Todd Bentley / Lakeland) but like Oscar, refuses to clean the mess up because they really do not feel that it’s a mess and belongs in the society of the “Apostolic Apartment” that they now live in outright. It’s not a mess, it’s a setback to greatness as Oscar went to the bedroom to go back being a sports writer, they really believe that Galatians 6:1 means that Todd Bentley will go back as a high-powered revivalist.

However, Felix cleaned up the mess…. And if by chance one day, if the American Religious Right gets back into power (with the help of the votes from the seven mountains and the supporters of the NAR), you may find out that the cleancut, mainline, and orderly neat freak will no longer tolerate the messy, lunatic fringe, and disorderly slob and come up with legal ways to stop the theologies of the NAR / Third Wave and establish the mainline Christian religion as the official law of the land and official state religion…..

Which was part of what the American Religious Right wanted all along…

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The Odd Couple